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Game balance suggestion

Napisany przez briggie, 11-10-2019, 16:03


Game balance suggestion

Offline briggie

#1
Let's face it, the car score ranking system simply doesn't work. i can easily beat 340 cars in my 297 Manana, but still a 300 Super GT will lap me in URL. I propose we get rid of this ranking system and just sort cars by their class. 

This will make URL's more exciting by giving more usable cars, instead of the current "pick SGT and win" meta. Imagine a Muscle class URL. Have you ever seen a Club in URL? Now you will. I would personally main the SUV class. 

We will no longer have to make complicated builds on cars to be just under that random car score mark. How is a player supposed to figure out that keeping drivetrain on stock was the best option, for example? New players would understand to simply max out their car, but still leave skill in tuning for experienced players because of the dyno. Why do you think nobody plays URL? Because new players don't understand that you need some complicated build to compete, but everyone can understand to just buy all pro parts. If .exe didn't give me his Manana 297 LSAP build and dyno i would never win a URL. It's not fun to lose because you dont know what to do.

Developers could balance the cars easier.  The Manana for example will dominate the E class in the beginning, but developers can nerf/buff by just looking at the E class and not the whole car list. It's very difficult to nerf 300 SGT but still have good 400 SGT. It's easier to nerf SGT if you just look at how it is against maxed B class cars. 

I know this will upset the veterans who have perfect builds and just compete with their friends, but you have to look at the new players so we can grow this server. And this will give new life to a game you have been playing for so long.

This is not fun.
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Offline OneFanOfWorld

#2
I agree. I still remember that I used a 349 futo in url 350 and Super GTs and Sultans just left me with DNF, and for sure that it wasn't fun
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Away qrur

#3
If you know you can't win a URL, just don't participate and play modes you can win with your car. Every car is usable for its own and a new meta might be possible. And you will never get all people to like that idea, there will always be complaints afterwards anyway.
Drift races are just skillless point grinding events.

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Offline Nabatse

#4
Ahh, another salty url player. Where should i start...
Yes, the score system is really bad, and doesn't mean anything, but still, it has a purpose.
Imagine it, we remove the score system, and then we sort all cars by their class. Good, now we have 8 url "slot" where the players can join: A, B, C, D, E, SUV, Muscle and Vintage
What could happen, firstly, i assume noone would play the vintage or muscle url over the other ones, because those cars aren't for any competitive play and most of them are just a joke or just for fun.
But the other ones... geez. I can see with my eye that all class urls would look like this:
A class: Infernus,Infernus,Bullet,Cheetah,Infernus,Cheetah,Cheetah,Banshee
B class: Super GT, Sultan, Super GT, Sultan, Sultan, Super GT, Super GT, Super GT
C class: Deluxo, Sentinel, Blista, Deluxo, Blista, Deluxo, Deluxo, Sentinel...
...You get the point
"This will make URL's more exciting by giving more usable cars" Maybe in your head. Noone would pick the shitty Jester or ZR for URL over the Sultan or SGT. That ""pick SGT and win" meta" syndrome wouldn't change at all (at least for B class). All URLs would be so boring and stale after a while. With the current score system, you can see the """"wild""""" battles of an SGT vs Deluxo on 350, or Infernus vs Cheetah on 400. Yes, it's still shit, and unfair for those players who doesn't have these cars or can't dyno their own -insert best class car here-, but still more versatile than the "only class cars" type. I think this is the main reason why the devs still keeps the score system on url.

The "only class cars" url type just looks more balanced, but on the surface it couldn't change anything. For example B class, (again) it would be a battle of just maxed sultans and sgts. Only the dyno would make difference (you can't win with only skill, yeah you could have more skills than the other players, but it doesn't do anything when your car is shit because of the lack of dyno or dyno "experience").
Every player could have a chance with the maxed cars, but it's just a pretence. Players who can't make a perfect dyno for their cars won't win in this type of url either, just like in the current score system.

"Developers could balance the cars easier. The Manana for example will dominate the E class in the beginning, but developers can nerf/buff by just looking at the E class and not the whole car list." That's not that easy. If you nerf a car, you have to consider other things as well. Like how it will it perform in the circuit or sprint maybe drift races. Nerfing a car just beacuse it's a beast at URLs could make the whole car useless on other things too. And if you nerf 1 car, players will find another car to dominate the meta, then you nerf that as well, then there will be another car and so on. It's a constant loop that lives until every car get nerfed to trash.

If you don't like the current meta, it's your problem. Just accept that you can't beat every player. There will be always a person standing in your way who is way better than you. Everyone have to accept this in some way.
(っ^◡^)っ



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Offline briggie

#5
that is not the way to grow the server you seem to love. you are talking from the veteran player perspective. i seriously doubt the majority of pro url players didnt get those builds and dynos from other players. i dont even care about url just add this option to custom races and you will see that people will love it. you can be elitist at url but the score ranking affects the new player who wont stay and learn because it is too confusing and other players dont help.
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Offline Tekk

#6
(11-10-2019, 16:03)briggie Wrote: Have you ever seen a Club in URL? Now you will.

Gotta be honest, I've seen people using Club for 300 LSAP back in early 2018. Wasn't all that bad. It's a nice car still, though with time changing, maybe it's not as valuable for the URLs anymore.

(11-10-2019, 16:03)briggie Wrote: Developers could balance the cars easier.

Well, to balance something, you need to know exactly what you're doing. Testing and comparing the changes takes a lot of time and effort. So it's just easier to say than done.

Considering that you want to see a class URL room as an option, that would require every car to have similar performance, so they would be able to compete with each other. Maybe I'm missing something, but that sounds pretty dull and also would make the car collecting/maxing less interesting in a long term. Why bother if you already have a car that is equal with the rest? I believe people would rather spend their time on something more valuable, though. Correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I think it's impossible to balance the cars just for the URLs. Maybe you could do that with drift, since it makes your car switch to a different handling. AFAIK, other modes don't do that.

Some time ago, I was thinking that a class room option for the URL is a good idea, but I'm not so sure anymore. It can just kill the variability we have right now. Maybe the best option would be just changing the meta, giving some cars completely new handlings, so the people would start using them for something else. That's my 2 cents, I guess. This is a hard topic to discuss, everyone has their own opinion, but no one did the testing to actually prove their ideas work.
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Offline Nabatse

#7
(11-10-2019, 19:12)briggie Wrote: that is not the way to grow the server you seem to love. you are talking from the veteran player perspective. i seriously doubt the majority of pro url players didnt get those builds and dynos from other players. i dont even care about url just add this option to custom races and you will see that people will love it. you can be elitist at url but the score ranking affects the new player who wont stay and learn because it is too confusing and other players dont help.

You're right, i'm talking from a veteran's perpective. I don't see why we have to consider a "new player's" perspective if we talk about URL. I mean, sure. Let the new players understand it better. It could work. But in my opinion, the URL is not for new players. It wasn't for new players at all from the start i suppose. The URL is for the pro players, not for the casual ones. It's the most competitive part of the server. Just like in real life, you won't go championships if you can't do more than the casual level. In every i mean, EVERY game, there is a meta that you have to follow if you really want to accomplish anything in tournaments. You can go for "rogue" play and not use the things that are in the meta, but you won't reach so far with that.
Anyway this is a so opinion based topic, and it's really hard to deal with this problem easily (beacause everone has different opinions)
(っ^◡^)っ



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Offline briggie

#8
ok i understand you now. how about then we just implement the car class option in custom races? as it would help new players but still be completely optional. Or just start the community url guide? we can make a forum post where players can post their url setups for cars so new players can see the meta.
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Offline scaftz

#9
(11-10-2019, 18:32)Nabatse Wrote: And if you nerf 1 car, players will find another car to dominate the meta, then you nerf that as well, then there will be another car and so on. It's a constant loop that lives until every car get nerfed to trash. 

Used to think the same. But with a very specific handling value a balanced stats is possible. Sultan vs Super GT is the closest to it.

(11-10-2019, 19:18)Tekk Wrote:  Also, I think it's impossible to balance the cars just for the URLs. Maybe you could do that with drift, since it makes your car switch to a different handling. AFAIK, other modes don't do that.

Please no. It would kill the handling sense of the car.

Class based lobby URL wouldn't be that bad and all but yes as Nabatse said, best car on each category would still be exist. Unlimited URL is the best example of how maxed A URL would be since it is literally the same thing lmao. Cars on each classes needs to be balanced as well to make this happen but I would like to see every car on each class being competitive at something anyway so it's overall a win for me. Something like class B have SGT and Sultan being decent on most tracks and Elegy being good on some specific tracks. 

Though while i am lowkey liking the class based lobby, i don't want the current score based to go away. it's really good seeing cars from different classes racing against each other. Having class based and score based lobby on rotation doesn't seem like a good idea either since it will fuck up players with the schedule and having players to prepare with more cars.

One thing to blame about this higher class supremacy imbalance is the car scoring system which is apparently broken as fuck. Car scoring calculation needs some rework. I mean, now take a look at this, a 300 score E class can out perform 300 score B class in acceleration and top speed, but not its handling. You see where is the problem? yes it is handling. People throw all the upgrade on handling because it is the most powerful stats at this point. It is very score efficient and higher class cars are taking huge benefit because the lower classes can't have it. 

Handling upgrades should be treated different to power upgrades. Power upgrades can have it score raise linear while handling upgrades should be weighing more as score getting higher. For example something like stock,street,race,pro tires upgrades for E class gives +0,+5,+11,+22 while on B class it is +0,+9,+19,+39. With this formula, players will need to upgrade their tires to fit their car score range to have better score efficiency instead of putting most grip possible to their setup. Not sure whether acceleration and top speed should follow this formula as well since currently balancing between both of them is more viable to play competitively than bulking up whole on either acceleration or top speed.

Other than that, broken specific part upgrades like 3rd gear bug should be gone. A new dyno slider to tweak braking power would also come in handy since some car benefit a lot by not having locking brakes on maxed brakes like Infernus. I know you can downgrade brakes to reduce the braking power but that also affects something else as far as i know. Correct me if i am wrong. I heard that from Nightmare (that german prick, not that soa member) which he said he got such information from Venom.

That's all i am going to say. In conclusion, car scores needs a rework.

Also welcome back Tekk
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Offline Tekk

#10
(12-10-2019, 00:44)scaftz Wrote: welcome back Tekk

Hey! Thank you, though I wouldn't call this a comeback. Just checking the forums at the moment. Can't promise anything but could be I'll make some new stuff for the winter holidays.

(12-10-2019, 00:44)scaftz Wrote: Please no. It would kill the handling sense of the car.

I'm not suggesting anything there, really. I'm okay with the current system since there are many other ways of how you can build RP these days. I do understand the problem he's talking about, however. Those people who doesn't have SGT unlocked and doesn't know how to finetune their current cars are going to lose to it the majority of times. I agree with what you said about the rooms though. As long as the OP cars still exist, having rooms won't change much. Cause a car like Manana would be dominating the 300 LSAP due to gearbox bug. (It's funny how OP mentioned he won the race, without knowing he was using the bugged setup). That should be the priority if we're talking about balance/fixes, IMO.

The only easy and fast solution that I could think of was to make every cars' performance to be very similar to each other. That would sorta fix the balance issue, but would also turn the gameplay into complete boredom. So in no way I'm suggesting it. It would also kill the idea behind collecting and maxing the cars, which is something I mentioned in the first post.
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